Concerning VoIP

So - got into Ventrilo today, woot - glad I got a chance to talk to several of you guys.

However, I admit that, while I used it in the past, for probably a good past year to two years I've used only Teamspeak and Mumble. My apologies for any of you I interrupted, not quite used to it yet (lol)!

This said, I was wondering something. I noticed there seems to be a significant delay between talk times. E.G. I say something and I hear it come back to me from your system, 3 seconds later. So, around a 1.5-2.5 second delay between messages. This said, I think is kind of what caused some of my interruption problems.

I mention this because the clan I led for a while, [For the War], originally used TS3. It also had a significant delay time, and so we began searching for other options. We found Mumble, which, albeit documentation is somewhat limited currently, was easy to setup, had many great features, and had little to zero delay time. We began using it, and the clan still uses it to this point in time.

I'm not sure who it is who is kind enough to donate the Vent to us - but, in an effort to make TD better, would we be interested in potentially converting to Mumble? My clan wouldn't mind some of our members popping in for a while to test it out and see if they liked it, if you wanted.

A brief summary of the most notable Mumble features:

- Price. A 50-slot server from Multiplay Hosting (they are currently running a 50% off for life promo on all voice servers) costs only 3.42 Euros/mo, as compared to the 8.36 Euros/mo for a 50-slot Vent. (Note I'm not trying to advertise for MP, I simply use them as I've dealt with them before so their pricing is familiar to me).

- Ease of Use. Honestly? I found Mumble easier to setup as a user than I did for Vent. Most of the options most players will use work out of the box, and creating special group and user permissions for certain people or groups (such as leaders, officers, or what have you) takes only seconds.

- The Overlay. This was big for me. Vent offers an overlay, but it's known to cause issues with some titles and systems. Alternatively, many of the external overlays that do work in more titles, also have their own set of issues and problems, and just adds to the number of running programs. Mumble's overlay works out of the box (a virtual, figurative box, of course) - and not just in games. LOL - I opened Photoshop one morning for work and found out it worked there, too! It's full customizable - colors, position, size, you can even show user avatars ingame.

- Text-to-Speech. This also, while it may exist in Vent, is much better implemented, and also works out of the box. Mumble is specially configured to work well with Speex - and even your chat messages are vocalized in game so you don't have to alt-tab out, or have it on a different screen, etc. Don't like the Text to Speech? Turn off certain or all messages - even tell it only to vocalize a certain length of text.

- Chat. One of the nicest features - the chat interface is integrated into the client as though it was meant to be. Send a message to a person with a single click, or a whole channel - also with a single click. It auto-hyperlinks your links, and can be set to accept HTML. "Quotations" auto-italicize, and *asterisks* auto-bold. As mentioned above - all of it is vocalized, if you so choose!

There are several other notable features. If any of you guys would like to sit down in our Vent and talk about it sometime, I'd be happy to tell you everything I know about it. I know I just joined today, but I was told my past experience and opinion as a member would be valued, so I'm simply trying to help! I'm fine with either Vent, Mumble, or Conference-Calls (lol) - whatever works best for the guild. I just wanted to throw this bit in.

Cheers P.S. Apologies for the length - I got going and ... well, just kept going, lol.

I'm not against trying out a new VoIP. I've used TeamSpeak, GSC, Skype in the past. I usually just go with what everyone else is comfortable with. None of the ones I mentioned ran perfectly for me and all seem to have their good points and drawbacks. I think I liked GSC the least... Typed my password into the chat at least 8 times without meaning to.

If everyone wants to try out the Mumble server to see how it reacts to their PC, go for it.(some PCs just don't like some programs) If we decide that is what we will use I need to know so I can purchase a server and possibly cancel the Vent. I may keep the vent for our Aion members as no one seems to have a problem with it.

Let me know what you guys wanna do.

Well, you obviously are in the EU haha. You were talking about Euros as your currency, so that would explain your lag. Your voice has to travel to Athens, Georgia, United States (East coast), and then to the person/people you are talking to. Then they talk back, it travels to Athens, then it travels to you and everyone else in the room. It's kind of like a cell phone.

If the delay gets too severe, then we will most definitely consider a new VoIP provider, but for now, I believe vent is holding true. Thanks for saying something about it, though. I personally haven't noticed much lag in talking, but if we get enough complaints, then obviously we will change the client we are using.

Actually - I live in Eastern, AL, USA. Athens is less than 150 miles away from me. I used Euros simply because that is the only currency Multiplay, the company I used in my price comparison, uses.

So, theoretically - I should have a better return time than most everyone else here, especially with my connection speed. That being said, I still get an echo from others. And by that, i more specifically mean I say something and they buzz in to say something, and I hear it on their mic. Obviously they're using an open mic that way, instead of a headset, so hearing them isn't a problem. It's that I'm hearing them so much time AFTER I've said it. So, reduce the time by half and you get the 2.0-3.0 second delay.

From my experiences - Mumble doesn't have such a delay. All of our users were in the US, server was based in Virginia, and if someone says something while you're talking - no sweat, it doesn't usually cause you to pause. They laugh, and it comes into your ear when they laugh, not 2 seconds after you crack a joke.

I don't mean to be a bother or anything - I'll get used to Vent eventually. I just noticed this and thought to point it out.

And, with it being cheaper - I know someone had mentioned redoing our site, paying for pro hosting even - paying half the cost for just as many or more slots also leaves more money to put towards other clan resources.

I also live in Eastern Alabama (maybe we know each other ), but I don't see any lag. There could be several issues with this on your end. What type of system are you using? I'm going to assume windows since Rift doesn't have a linux client that I know of, but is your system x32 or x64? If x64, be sure to download the x64 bit client, and if you have UAC enabled, then be sure to allow it to run as administrator, as that gives Vent more privileges on port 80 (port that Vent uses to send data through).

You could also have another program open using port 80 (another VoIP program, maybe you have Vonage or something like that).

Of course, it could also be that I'm only ever in a room with 3-4 people, and Mike (KillMachine) and I are usually the only two who talk. The Rift channels have had up 10 people I've seen, so maybe you've had more stress on the vent server than when I've been on. Many things could be wrong with that on either your end or our Vent server. I'm hoping it is a problem on your end for simplicities sake.

I should probably try getting a bunch of you on at once. Well, this weekend would be a nice time for that, but I'm out of town for a family reunion tomorrow morning and I'm not sure when I will be back.

If you don't mind, Seraph, if you're on to be sure to monitor the quality and let me know. Treat it as a stress test, and get Kyle (tolgeranth) to keep tabs on it as well, and maybe even a third person from another area.

Kyle is from Canada, you from AL, and a third from another area (EU or West Coast would be nice). If this delay gets worse over time, or becomes audibly noticeable for multiple people in Vent, then I'm sure Mike will be happy to switch over to something more comfortable; either a new host for our server, or we could test out Mumble or TS3.

We were using GSC, and GSC has a client overlay option to use in games where it shows a graphic of who is talking or what someone is chatting with in game, and it caused some people with lower end PC's to experience some severe lag (had to give step-by-step on how to disable), so if you can, tell me a little more about the overlay in Mumble, or if you have access to a Mumble server already, then it'd be nice to give me and a few other members the information to test out the server for a couple of days to see how it behaves.

Again, thanks for the input.

(TL;DNR- I'm a stubborn a** hole, and I need evidence and multiple complaints before making another switch haha)

Hmm, I like my computer and spend alot of time tweaking it, so of course I'm a bit reluctant to admit it has flaws, lol - but you could be right. I have also have a few network problems lately, but I believe(d) I had those fixed. But who knows - it could stiill be me. All I know is my clan actually started with Vent for a week or so, and I wasn't the only one getting those problems. That was with ~10 people on simultaneously, etc. But - as you mentioned, there are numerous factors involved at any given time.

As far as you being a stubborn a**hole, lol - that's fine, I totally agree. If something ain't broke, don't necessarily fix it. But, on the same token, if something works better for cheaper - I think that changes things.

I'll do my best to keep tabs on things when I'm on during the weekend. I'm off all day Sund-Mon, so that will likely be the best time for me to spend some time on with alot of people, as opposed to the 4 or 5 I see when I get on late on the other days of the week.

As far as Mumble server goes, my clan still has a 35-slot running (was 50, but they downgraded to 50 recently). Maybe tomorrow evening if you're online, or over the weekend, we pop in together and I can show you around its functions, etc.

As far as the Overlay - that's exactly what I meant. Vent has it built in, but it doesn't like Vista or Aero (and I personally HATE to have my Aero disabled, when I know my system can handle it). Similarly, while I don't often use GSC, I have noticed what you mentioned with some of my own users in the past (again, going back to my previous clan). With Mumble's overlay - it glitches occasionally, such as when you have ALOT of traffic joining/leaving a channel, but that's only a mild graphical issue, and doesn't affect performance. As I mentioned - it is by far the best VoIP overlay I've encountered, and works fine out of the box - everything is completely configurable, and it works in programs outside of just games. This is good especially for those that like to conserve screen space. I can open Dreamweaver or Photoshop and the overlay STILL appears. It also usually works in Flash games.

I don't remember if it works in Rift. I know I wanted to test it the first Beta or so, but I don't remember if I actually paid attention to that, lol - I had the flu at the time, so my memory of that whole weekend is .. hazy, to say the least.

Either way, I'd be happy to get together and compare both Vent and Mumble side by side.

Forgot to directly answer your techie questions: x64 all the way (yay for higher RAM support), UAC completely disabled, etc. I'm running on a 6mbps connection, and all of my speed and latency tests have turned up fine.